Talk:DiscussionTools

Latest comment: 1 year ago by Cryptic in topic Space aliens ate my header!
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Contents taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_193.

This text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike Licence.

Badminton moduleEdit

Hi there. Could I get some help for improving Module:Sports table/Badminton team. I try to use these codes, but there are some columns with zero, which should be not shown, as the data might not be available. So I expect the column would be: Pos, Team, Pld, W, L, MF, MA, MD, Pts, Qualification (for uncomplete table, activated by "point_for_against_style=none". Any help would be appreciated. Regards. Medelam (talk) 13:49, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Looks like you want Template:Para and Template:Para, which removes the header columns. However there doesn't seem to be code to disable the data rows in Module:Sports_table/Badminton_team. I've changed your example (above) and will I'll see if I can get it to work in the sandbox. —  Jts1882 | talk  14:32, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Medelam: Is the above now what you require? —  Jts1882 | talk  14:41, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jts1882: Yes, that is exactly what I want. Appreciate your effort. Thank you and regards. Medelam (talk) 14:44, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've put it live. The header code was also hiding the points columns if the games columns were hidden, so I've done the same with the country rows for consistency. So Template:Para is redundant when Template:Para is set. —  Jts1882 | talk  15:18, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Skip to Top and Skip to Bottom arrowsEdit

A few project pages - and not all of them - have big arrows to click for "Skip to Top" and "Skip to Bottom". For me personally, they're just blocking text I want to read. How are these inserted on project pages, and how can I adjust so I don't have to see these arrows. Thanks. — Maile (talk) 15:53, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Maile66 see Template:Tl - I think this is the template you're referring to. There are instructions there on how to hide them in your CSS. Nthep (talk) 16:01, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Looks like it worked. Thanks. — Maile (talk) 16:43, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Looking for help from a Python dev to help getting ReFill to build and runEdit

I volunteered to take over maintenance of WP:Refill as the original developer was no longer interested/able to do so. I am set up with Toolforge access via PuTTY etc. I'm having difficulties getting the code to build and run locally on my dev machine. I could really do with a Python dev to help me deal with NPM versioning issues (breaking changes in dependencies). Ideally, it would be someone who would be willing to be around longer than just to get me going, i.e. to field occasional subsequent questions. Hopefully, Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 16:54, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Re Hey! I got that running locally not that long ago Template:P what's broken? ~TheresNoTime (to explain!) 17:04, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Replied on TheresNoTime's talk page. Thanks - this is hopefully the help I need - if not, I will post again here. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 20:06, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just a note, if this gets into Pythonic Madness I may have to poke someone like Template:U ~TheresNoTime (to explain!) 20:09, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Funny white bars in history previews, using green-on-black gadgetEdit

This seems to have started today. When I point my mouse at "hist" on my watchlist the pop-up shews more-or-less as usual, but with vertical white bars between cur prev | time | username | section. You can see a picture of it here. They are not visible if I switch the gadget off. DuncanHill (talk) 19:08, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Re there was an update to Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups today - is that what you are using? Perhaps there is a conflict with something in MediaWiki:Gadget-Blackskin.css. As the former has ~55000 users and the later has ~6400, I'd rather someone propose a change to blackskin then rollback navpops though. — xaosflux Talk 19:20, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re Yes, Navigation Pop-ups. DuncanHill (talk) 19:24, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Apparently blackskin.css overrides the table background, and the cell background, but not the background-color of the table rows —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:24, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Replyto we can just add this into the table section of the blackskin.
table tr { 
    background-color: #000000!important;
    color: #00dd00!important;
}
TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:34, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re thank you for the markup; @DuncanHill: I updated blackskin, please check in about 5 mins? — xaosflux Talk 20:44, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re and Template:Re Thank you, works as expected now. DuncanHill (talk) 20:59, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

wpTextbox1 equivalent in 2017 wikitext editorEdit

What is it's equivalent? I don't find the element anywhere in the page and thus almost no user script in Wikipedia:User scripts/List#Editing doesn't work for me. The Wikipedia:User scripts/Guide seems to be written for the 2010 editor and isn't helpful for me in editing mode, when I try to develop a script on my own. Thanks for any help! — DaxServer (talk) 13:49, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

wpTextbox1 is present alright for the 2017 wikitext editor. You should use jQuery.textSelection API for textbox interactions as they'd work independently of the type of source editor. – SD0001 (talk) 15:06, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@SD0001 Thanks for the reply. I must have been doing something so wrong!! — DaxServer (talk) 15:21, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Proposal to turn the DYK helper into a gadgetEdit

Template:Atop This proposal arises out of ongoing efforts to simplify the process of making DYK nominations so that newcomers are able to complete it more easily (see here and here). Currently, one of the first obstacles is installing the DYK helper script, which requires editing your js page. If the helper were a gadget, all it'd require to activate is going to the settings page. The helper is very widely used and trusted (kudos to maintainer Template:U), so I propose turning it into a gadget. (Per here, this is the place to do that.) {{u|Sdkb}}talk 19:48, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • Support as proposer. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 19:48, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. The process of posting a Did you know nomination is currently very manual, which can put off people from submitting them, and automating it makes a lot of sense. I think this helper script is a good step forward with this, but asking (potentially new) editors to install it in their individual javascript pages is very off-putting and very technical: it becomes a lot easier if it's just an option to turn on in their preferences. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 19:55, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support In general, the entire DYK review process and feedback/comments also feels way too manual and different from talk page discussions which I would have expected. The less manual, the better overall! ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 22:52, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Template:? (1) @SD0001: are you good with this? (2) @Sdkb: confirming this would be for opt-in, correct? — xaosflux Talk 23:21, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    For (1), see here. For (2), yes. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 23:25, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support - I'm all for simplifying any process, especially if it helps new users. — Maile (talk) 23:29, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support turning this excellent script into a gadget —valereee (talk) 00:01, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support. I do not know the effort that goes into creating a gadget, but, I support this action that will greatly simplify the act of submitting a DYK nomination. Actually on that note if there is a way to simplify any other main page nomination (ITN nomination comes to mind) as a part of the same submission gadget, that would be welcome too. I am adding some ITN Admins just as an fyi. cc @Stephen, Spencer, PFHLai, Masem, and MSGJ: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ktin (talkcontribs) 00:07, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Stephen, Spencer, PFHLai, Masem, and MSGJ: as a courtesy to Ktin above. --Izno (talk) 01:08, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I'm all for more automated tools to help make these sections easier to use. Don't know enough about the DYK side of things to specifically comment there. SpencerT•C 02:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Glad to see more tools and new ways to contribute. :-) --PFHLai (talk) 10:23, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Some non-blocking comments to this action (overall I want all the widely-used scripts to be gadgets): 1) I dislike the use of morebits.js. I am sure it is convenient, but it sure is so 2005 in looks. :^) 2) The name should be indicative of its purpose if possible; DYK "helper" is not. It appears to be exclusive to nominations, so, "DYK nominator" or even "DYKN.js" would be preferable. --Izno (talk) 01:03, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • I like the idea, but installing a gadget is still one more step than necessary - I imagine we could use a withJS link here? That way you'd just click on a button "submit a DYK" on the DYK page (that's probably the precise place where people have the idea to submit their article, after all) and have the form immediately open. That would also eliminate any need to hunt down the "DYK" menu item or link. It would require a little coding and add one form field (you'd need to write the name of the article), but I'd be happy to help out and I think the extra inconvenience is worth it. A gadget would still help power users who submit lots of DYKs, but I would imagine they would be experienced enough to be able to install a user script (especially with script-installer). (I also feel like the gadget list is getting a little long, but that's a really, really tiny concern.) If we go ahead with a gadget nonetheless (which I'm not opposed to! just proposing another solution), I agree with what Izno said about naming. For Template:U, I would absolutely be in favor of introducing forms for those other processes. Enterprisey (talk!) 02:20, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Thanks Template:Re and apologies for the digression. I must admit I know the least about gadgets and user scripts. But, what is the best way to take this conversation forward? The folks above are the real gurus of the ITN page. Happy to help coordinate. Ktin (talk) 02:46, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Ktin, well, you're in luck! I just made Wikipedia:Workflow improvements, so we could talk further over there. Enterprisey (talk!) 10:10, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Is there something blocking having the gadget accessible from withJS? Probably means a little modification (autofill versus not of the page of interest), but that doesn't seem like a big deal. Izno (talk) 03:09, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Yes, that's the only thing blocking it as far as I'm aware. Not a big deal, yeah. Enterprisey (talk!) 03:21, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    The use case for this seems to be primarily using a single form entry for a task - as such I'm much more in favor of ?withJS if it will work. The primary benefit for end users is that they won't have to go enable anything - they would just get a button to click on. The downside (?) is that they would need to navigate to the page and push the button as opposed to say adding this to a tool menu on their interface. — xaosflux Talk 15:01, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    That's precisely what I told Sdkb when they approached me (see User_talk:Mike_Peel#DYK_nomination_instructions). But it will require extensive changes and is not something I see happening in the near future. This script uses Morebits.quickForm that's designed to work within modal windows. A full-page form would render oddly with quickForm (eg. you can't even limit the width of the textareas, they'll spread across the page). While morebits is a good framework for complex forms within small dialogs (which OOUI is really lousy at), for a full-page form it's better to use OOUI. There are lots of UI controls in this script (for handling multiple hooks, multiple nominators, multiple articles, ...) which would likely require custom OOUI widgets. Also, the prose size calculation relies on the article being open (it can be tweaked to load the article html via the API, but then what with the user being able to change the article ...). – SD0001 (talk) 16:17, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Sure, the "proper" way would be to convert it to a full-screen form, but honestly I don't think that's a requirement; it'll still work perfectly fine as a modal form, I'm guessing, even if it'll look a little weird. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) For the prose size, yes, that's inconvenient, but I'd imagine people would use the dedicated widget for that if they do it very often. Enterprisey (talk!) 22:29, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Hm. I think it would be semi-professional to open an all new page on which a modal pops up. But regarding the conversion to full-screen form, I think I may spoken too soon. Let me take a shot at that first – it's just that quickForm hasn't ever been used outside a modal (WP:TWPREF looks similar to other Twinkle windows that use quickForm, but actually it uses HTML built from the ground up!). It shouldn't be too hard to do some refactoring and have everything fit into a fixed-width div. Might need a couple of morebits patches. – SD0001 (talk) 09:31, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Nevertheless, I suppose one day it could be rewritten (maybe as part of WP:Workflow improvements) – which brings to the other point: when https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/extensions/Gadgets/+/730684 is merged (likely, since it just cleared a security review) it would be possible to load gadgets via URL – in a way that's quite more performant than the current withJS trick (resourceloader minimisation, caching, load being requested before page is ready, etc – basically all the advantages that gadgets have over user scripts). When both of these happen we can convert this to a hidden gadget and have it load only by URL. – SD0001 (talk) 16:26, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Awesome! Enterprisey (talk!) 22:29, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    It required some refactoring, but this is Template:T. I posted a note on WT:DYK#DYK-helper_script_improvements_and_auto-loading which has instructions on testing it out. cc @Sdkb and Enterprisey:. – SD0001 (talk) 14:22, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Comment - I'm not entirely sure which part of the process this proposal is covering, but noting that DYK already has a fairly intuitive process at WP:DYKNOM where you fill in the name of your article and off you go. It seems like the hard part about that is that you have to then go and edit the newly created DYK nom template, and then also transclude the nomination on the appropriate page. So I think we should be focusing our efforts on automating the latter two steps to complete that process, while keeping the ease-of-use of the form at WP:DYKNOM. The above-mentioned solution, which as far as I can tell involves either installing a JS script or fiddling around with your settings, is the very opposite of an ease-of-use solution for newcomers. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 08:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Amakuru This only creates the template, but does not actually link/transclude it anywhere which was confusing for me. Because I once created the template and expected it to transclude. I also noticed the preload template doesn't automatically autopopulate the title parameter, but I can fix that directly. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 09:52, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Shushugah: yes, this is my point. Rather than creating an entirely new tool, which requires users to install something on their profiles, the page I mention should be expanded and updated so that it does all of the steps rather than just one of them. Either that, or have a bot do the heavy-lifting, which is what happens at WP:GAN - an example of a good user-friendly process IMHO. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 09:59, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    I boldly edited Template:T:TDYK/preload to autopopulate the article name. Have a look ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 10:19, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    To clarify, when @Shushugah says Template:Tq they are talking about the inputbox at WP:DYKNOM, not the script. – SD0001 (talk) 16:15, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    @Amakuru DYK-helper automates all of those steps. – SD0001 (talk) 16:14, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Abot

Uploading non-image filesEdit

After tagging an orphaned PDF for WP:F10, I noticed that the message that Twinkle posts on the uploader's talk page (Template:Tl makes reference to Microsoft Word documents as a potential bad file type. But I thought I'd read somewhere that there's technical limitations in place that prevent the uploading of word documents (and generally non-image files other than PDFs). I guess if there are legacy ones hanging around, it might not be bad to keep the wording, but is it going to be possible to upload such file types? If not, I can change the template wording. Hog Farm Talk 06:12, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Re you can see the list of supported file extensions here (click "make request" after ensuring we're not trying to trick you in to something nefarious - notably the action= in the left pane should say query to show it is only trying to read things). I suppose technically this isn't examining the file "type" just the name, but it is something to go off of. Improvements to that system are discussed in phab:T42479 and many linked tasks therein. — xaosflux Talk 11:44, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Had to look up what some of those file extensions meant. Mostly a bunch of obscure audio/video formats. Looks like the only F10-eligible filetype is .pdf and possibly .djvu. Hog Farm Talk 14:41, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is this script safe to implement on the common.css pageEdit

I was wondering this script, found on Customizing watchlists for the Username:common.css files is safe to apply? Qwerty284651 (talk) 23:34, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

a [title="pagename"] {
    color: white;
    background: red;
    font-size: 150%;
}

Qwerty284651 (talk) 23:34, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Re yes, that would be "safe" to use on your User:Qwerty284651/common.css page. — xaosflux Talk 23:44, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Xaosflux: I tried using both the full URL permalink and the abbreviated name of an actual Wiki page, but it gave an error stating Warning: Unqualified attribute selectors are known to be slow. I am not good with scripts, so I don't understand what it wants from me. Could you help me out, please? Qwerty284651 (talk) 00:10, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The warning message is letting you know that since the [title="pagename"] selector will match against any HTML element, it will be slow to check all of them for the title attribute in question. You should remove the space between a and [title="pagename"], so only anchor elements will be checked. (I updated the Customizing watchlists page accordingly.) isaacl (talk) 04:37, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Indeed, this isn't a great script - but it isn't "dangerous". — xaosflux Talk 10:57, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, Xaosflux. I just run into this script, whilst looking for a way to highlight certain pages in my watchlist for easier navigation, but wasn't sure what was the problem with the error it was displaying. Thanks. Cheers, Qwerty284651 (talk) 11:32, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Xaosflux Under pagename do I use the wikilink short version or the full URL permalink? Qwerty284651 (talk) 20:19, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The "title" attribute on an HTML element is what shows up in the popup tooltip when you hover over the element. Thus you should use whatever shows up when you hover over the link. isaacl (talk) 21:15, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Ec Template:Replyto I moved this thread from WT:VPT, which is the talk page for discussing improvements to this page - basically, whether to alter the archive settings, almost nothing else goes there.
Anyway, please note that what you have provided above is not a script, it is a CSS rule. CSS rules, generally speaking, are harmless - the worst that could happen is that you make the whole page invisible. None of the three declarations in your rule goes anyway near to sdoing that. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:18, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Redrose64: Thanks for clarifying it for me. Qwerty284651 (talk) 22:34, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Deal with bare URLs to filesEdit

Hi there! I've been working on expanding bare URLs in references recently. However, there have been lots of URLs that point to an external file (PDF, image, etc.), where automatic reference generating cannot work normally to grab information such as titles. Then what can I do to expand those references? Maybe, upload the original files? Or something else? -- UNITE TOGETHER, STRIVE FOR SURVIVAL! 02:53, 16 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I think those have to be handled manually. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:49, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
FYI in the last year or so I've noticed that refill2 is now formatting a few PDFs. Reflinks can format quite a few of them and can also mark some that have gone dead with a "dead link" template. But, as Whatamidoing points out, there are still tons of them that have to be formatted manually. MarnetteD|Talk 00:00, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

IGN citation problemEdit

Hi. The auto citation tool is having problems citing pages from the IGN site. See the example: "<ref>{{Citation|last=pm|first=Craig HarrisUpdated: 12 May 2012 11:41 amPosted: 20 Oct 2008 10:14|title=Legend of Kage 2 Review - IGN|url=https://www.ign.com/articles/2008/10/20/legend-of-kage-2-review|language=en|access-date=2021-10-18}}</ref>". Note that the "last" and "first", which serve respectively to put the last and first name of the author of the article, are showing quite wrong information. And this bug not only affects the enwiki, but other wikis, like ptwiki, are also being affected. ✍A.WagnerC (talk) 17:22, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is likely an issue with the Zotero configuration for IGN. See zotero.org for more information. Izno (talk) 00:59, 19 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Scann or @Diegodlh could probably tell you more about what the problem is. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:56, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for flagging this. I'll defer to Diego to explain the problem but in the meantime I've added the URL to our list of "problematic URLs" to test with Web2Cit. --Scann (talk) 00:29, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Possible printability issueEdit

I do have a possible issue that may be rooted in Wikipedia software. Or in the construction of lists with Wikipedia style elements. Some larger lists do not "nicely" print. With nicely I mean you can get the entire data to printer output without manually resizing (scaling). Fit to page size should do that, but it doesn't. While this can be OS related, I am a bit puzzled that it does not even work for PDF output (instead of printer output). As PDF carries an outer frame, in which all elements are placed, in theory it should not occur that certain information gets outside that frame.

This is Linux Mint (Ubuntu) version 19, and I see the issue with both the printer driver for Canon MX925 (which is a very reliable, well written driver). I have to scale below 87% (!) to get the entire content of a given page into that page without overspill at the right hand side. At the moment, I do not have a Windows machine at hand to verify this behaviour on Windows.

Browser is an up-to-date Firefox 93. Printing is done via Firefox' print function, which utilizes all installed drivers and a built-in PDF export. Mint/Ubuntu also offers PDF printer export as a driver, so I got three options: Canon, PDF export driver, built-in Firefox PDF export. All three show the issue...

The best example to showcase this is the list of Doctor Who serials: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_episodes_(1963%E2%80%931989)

Thanks a lot. 2001:A61:BAC:F001:9C64:F645:CAA3:9003 (talk) 10:01, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tooltip and dialog box text for suggested translation links in left sidebar is not all EnglishEdit

When an article at en-wiki doesn't exist in any other language, I usually get a few "suggested" languages to translate into in the left sidebar under the 'Languages' heading, where language links would appear had there been articles in other languages. In my case, French is one of those languages that often appears. The text in the left sidebar is français, exactly as it would be if a fr-wiki article existed. (Well, not exactly; the font is a lighter shade; approximately #72777D.) But the hover text is different.

Hovering over français in the language links section of the sidebar when there is no French article pops up the tooltip "Template:!xt". Clicking the link pops up a dialog box, which starts off with the bold heading, Template:!xt

This is English Wikipedia, and in my opinion, both the tooltip and the dialog box should both be written entirely in English (with the possible exception of adding a parenthetical appositive; e.g., "Template:Xt" would be fine. I don't have an objection to the long-standing practice of leaving the rendered text of language names in the list of language links in the native language; my question/complaint regards the language of the tooltip text, and of the pop-up dialog box. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 20:12, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This seems like a reasonable task to put in Phabricator, starting with the Language-team team project. They should be able to sort it into an appropriate component project. Izno (talk) 20:45, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
We can also do it locally in MediaWiki:Cx-entrypoint-title and MediaWiki:Cx-entrypoint-dialog-page-doesnt-exist-yet by testing $1. We don't appear to currently have a feature to get the language code from the native language name like français, but we could make it. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:50, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Realistically, this suggestion is primarily intended for people fluent in the destination language - if you can't easily read the name of the destination language in its native format - you probably shouldn't be trying to create articles on that other project. Am I missing a part of this? — xaosflux Talk 13:31, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Creating a new user talk section using discussion tools unwatches the pageEdit

Template:Tracked

Hi all, I've found that sometimes the quickest way of seeing if an issue is just me or not just me is by mentioning it here and waiting for the screaming. Template:Ctop List of steps to reproduce:

What happens?:

  • The message is posted, and the previously watched talk page is unwatched

What should have happened instead?:

  • The message is posted without affecting the watched status

Template:Cbot

Can anyone else confirm? ~TheresNoTime (to explain!) 14:06, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@TheresNoTime yep, confirmed - interestingly, when I tested on a page I had watchlisted before enabling discussion tools, the bug didn't trigger. When I tested watching a page after enabling discussion tools, things happened exactly as you describe. firefly ( t · c ) 14:12, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

mw.hook listener or list of all hooksEdit

Is there is a list of all available hooks (mw.hook) or is there a listener that I can hook into to listen to all hook fires? I've looked at mw:Manual:Hooks, but that doesn't seem what I'm looking for. An example is User:BrandonXLF/EasySummary.js, where the script is hooked into ve.saveDialog.stateChanged Thanks! — DaxServer (talk) 11:48, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The core ones are listed here in the mw.hook documentation. Other ones are considered to be 'private' but most can easily be found with codesearch. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:19, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you just want the names of all the hooks that have previously fired on the page you're on, you could also go to the function definition for mw.hook in your browser's dev tools and set a breakpoint on return hooks[name] right at the top of the function, hit the breakpoint by running mw.hook(), then look at the keys in the hooks object. – Rummskartoffel 14:58, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks @TheDJ and @Rummskartoffel. Both your solutions're quite useful! — DaxServer (talk) 16:45, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Redlink to existing pageEdit

Template:Tracked

Hello! I'm seeing something rather peculiar. In Special:PageHistory/Template:COVID-19 data/data, there are links to User:TolBot/Task 5, a soft redirect to Meta-Wiki, in my bot's edit summaries — but, despite the page existing, the links are red. When I click on a diff, the link is blue, and anywhere outside of an edit summary it's also blue. I've tried with safemode, so I don't think it's me. Can anybody else verify this or help me figure out what's going on? Thanks. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 21:57, 15 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I see the link in the most recent edit as blue, and the others as red. Moving to the previous 100, all are blue. Filtering by date to exclude today's two changes, all are blue. It looks like a minor bug. Certes (talk) 22:17, 15 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I only see one "Task 5" blue link at the history of Template:COVID-19 data/data. It is the most recent. The reason it is blue is that the wikitext is [[m:User:TolBot/Task 5|Task 5]] whereas the others omit m:. I tried to purge the history page but of course it only purged the template and that did not help. Weird. I don't see how it's related, but I asked about a red link problem here. Johnuniq (talk) 22:44, 15 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There was recently an overhaul of how edit summaries ("comments") are formatted on history pages, this might be another regression from that. I would suggest filing a bug in Phabricator for this, as the output clearly is wrong given User:TolBot/Task 5 exists on this wiki. Legoktm (talk) 05:50, 16 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And notably on other pages, such as the changevisibility controls page, the show as blue links. So looks like a bug of sorts on the history view page. — xaosflux Talk 15:46, 16 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, everyone. I've filed a task. Tol (talk | contribs) @ 21:54, 18 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This also happens for user pages that don't exist here but do exist at Meta, when a cross-wiki transclusion occurs - see for instance the two links to Explicit's user page in these edits. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Edit summaries with characters not staying on its lineEdit

This anon is vandalizing and leaving non-linear edit summaries Template:IPvandal which are visible in his contribution history. I am using Windows 10 Pro/64 w/ Firefox current version. It is also visible with Chrome. Should a fix be made to Wiki's html generator?

Some of the "offending" test
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Adakiko (talk) 07:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See Zalgo text. Nardog (talk) 07:18, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This could make for some interesting vandalism. Might need to request revdels so that other's edit summaries are readable? Adakiko (talk) 07:24, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So far, all of the "offending" edits have been at WP:Sandbox, a page to which we extend a great degree of freedom; it is generally acknowledged that no edits to this page can constitute vandalism as it is normally understood. So long as they're not committing a great Wikicrime - such as making an attack page or posting a massive copyvio - we generally let it be. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:36, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
While in this case it appears not to be vandalism and may even be a legitimate test edit , the edits do present a problem which we may need to find solutions, to ensure that if someone does something similar on non-sandbox pages, it doesn't effect the usability of the page or of the page history to other legitimate users. Ideally we shouldn't have to rely on friendly admins rev-deleting things to fix issues like this.Nigel Ish (talk) 12:02, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I doubt this kind of vandalism occurs frequently enough to warrant any preventative measures. You have to know how to do it, and there are much easier and quicker ways to vandalise. – Rummskartoffel 13:10, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Archive header not displayed at Talk:Air KoryoEdit

Hi, could someone take a look at why the list of archives isn't displaying at the top of Talk:Air Koryo? I'm guessing it's due to the strange naming convention, e.g. Talk:Air Koryo/2012/Archive 1, but not sure how to fix it. -M.nelson (talk) 10:23, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Because you didn't put (and configured) one of the templates that do just that?
User:MiszaBot/config#After_you_have_set_up_archiving. MarMi wiki (talk) 15:21, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Fixed. Those archives are very small and should probably be merged into one archive with a standard name. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:29, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you. Good point, the standard format would be better; I'll try resetting it and then Template:T1 might list them without an additional template. -M.nelson (talk) 15:57, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Missing history?Edit

I received a message on User talk:BattyBot claiming that my bot created Draft:Manathi P Ganesan. However, my bot doesn't create drafts. I looked at the draft history, and the only edit listed is my bot's edit to add Template:Tl. What happened to the rest of the edit history, and how can it be restored? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 02:38, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Based on the logs, the draft was history-merged into a user sandbox page, which basically moved all revisions to that page. —A little blue Bori v^_^v Jéské Couriano 02:53, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Ec Template:U used Special:MergeHistory to move the rest of the history to User:Mc.balamurugan/sandbox. It's still there, so there's nothing to restore. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:53, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Click "View logs for this page" at top of the page history to see what happened. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:38, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is a draft for this articleEdit

When edited, dab Morgan White claims that "There is a draft for this article at Draft:Morgan White". That page does exist, but it's a redirect to Morgan White (gymnast). I see why Template:Tl is invoking Template:Tl, but could we handle such cases better? Pinging Template:U and Template:U who contributed to a previous discussion. Certes (talk) 22:49, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have gone ahead and moved the draft title to Draft:Morgan White (gymnast) for consistency. BD2412 T 22:52, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Feel free to suggest an edit at template talk:Editnotices/Namespace/Main. The logic has become rather complicated, though maybe not to the extent that a Lua module is needed. – SD0001 (talk) 11:51, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks for the replies. This odd-looking behaviour seems correct then: the template is right to draw our attention to the minor issue of a malplaced redirect. If someone were preparing a BCA or other replacement for the dab, I'd want to know about it. Certes (talk) 14:54, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Attribution of tagsEdit

I made this edit just to fix a template date in a article split request so the article would be correctly categorized by the month/year. This got listed under Articles to be split at Wikipedia:WikiProject Singapore as proposed by me when it was in fact an IP that first added Template:Txl. Another editor did a split, without there having been any discussion. After that, they discovered it was suggested by an IP, and mentioned on my TP that they were mislead and may not have done the split had they realized the request came from an IP (not to disparage all IPs). Regardless, the "proposer" of the split was listed incorrectly. I don't know what templates/bots are involved in this so asking here if this can be "fixed". MB 19:58, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Re I think you are referring to this edit - and think that it should be better? If so, please bring it up at User talk:AAlertBot and / or Wikipedia talk:Article alerts to see how that could be improved. — xaosflux Talk 20:19, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Asked at Wikipedia talk:Article alerts. Thanks. MB 20:26, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

GNU General Public License Flashcard Program to use on Wikipedia's glossaries.Edit

Hi. Does anyone know of a GNU General Public License flashcard software program that can be used to run, share, and modify on Wikipedia? If so, please paste the code in your response. I would want to test it in the sandbox and then eventually place it on some of the glossaries and make flashcards within Wikipedia using the terms and definitions. The reader would be able to study the flashcards without leaving the page. It is an idea I have wanted to try for a long time. I think it would be a big hit. LearnMore (talk) 20:24, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Wikiversity

Template:Re Wikipedia usually doesn't support that kind of interactive content, historically because it doesn't print in a reasonable way and is difficult to proofread. You can make quizzes on the Wikiversity sister project and link them as shown here. There is another technical reason that you don't want to host actual flashcards inside Mediawiki or its extensions: spaced repetition, a useful way to sequence flashcards, requires storage that doesn't fit into the Mediawiki database schema, nor in JavaScript storage in a way that would let a user migrate between browsers e.g. on different devices, and for large decks of flashcards such as for language vocabulary, it's not clear whether you could prevent bumping up against local storage limits even if you limited users to one browser. One very popular and widely supported free cross-platform flashcard app is Anki, decks of which you can link to with their AnkiWeb service which has limited collaboration features. 71.204.166.188 (talk) 04:43, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you very much for the response. I appreciate it. LearnMore (talk) 21:49, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Where to post SQL requestsEdit

I'm pretty sure there used to be a page somewhere to ask for SQL queries to be run. I did a cold search, and found Wikipedia:SQL requests, which led me on this amazing journey, via a 6-way soft redirect-cum-splashpage-cum-suggested page runaround:

but never found my answer. So my first question is, where should Wikipedia:SQL requests *really* [soft-]redirect to?

Secondly, if you happen to know SQL and your appointment tomorrow with the Prime Minister was canceled at the last minute, I'm looking for two queries, yielding a count, and a handful of sample pages:

  • countTemplate:Sndhow many non-existent pages in Draft space have one or more in-links from mainspace? (I.e., if Draft:Foo_123 has one in-link from mainspace, Draft:Bar_456 has five, and Draft:Baz_678 has one hundred, the total count is 3.)
  • sampleTemplate:Snd can I get a list of around a dozen non-existent PAGENAMEs in Draftspace from that set, somewhat randomly selected (i.e., not all starting with 'A').

Thanks! Mathglot (talk) 03:18, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

WP:Request a query. – SD0001 (talk) 03:29, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re, thank you! Mathglot (talk) 05:31, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Discussion moved to

Tech News: 2021-43Edit

20:06, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Styles of level 2 and level 3 headingsEdit

Recently completed the Compiler page in the Oberon tutorial. I expect higher level headings to be more prominent than lower level headings. For example, "Tutorial objective" and "Introduction" (level 2) should be more prominent than the subsection "A first example" (level 3). In appearance, prominence is reversed. Levels 2 and 3 headings are rendered in a similar font size but level 3 is bold. Can anyone explain? A bug in MediaWiki? Can it be corrected? Thx, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 14:35, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@PeterEasthope: As far as I can tell, everything looks as intended in Vector, Monobook, and Timeless. Judging from your description, you're using Monobook, which is the only skin of the three that has bold h3s and regular h2s with the same font. If you just want to swap the font weight of the two (on your end only), you can add the following to your monobook.css on Wikibooks:
h2 {
  font-weight: bold;
}
h3 {
  font-weight: normal;
}
– Rummskartoffel 15:20, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Skin has examples of the four skins. Can the skin be identified visually? Something more certain? In Monobook, the links in the left margin are framed. In Vector, the links are listed with no frames. Please have a look at the UEFA Euro 2012 Final page. In default Vector style I see level 2, "Route to the final" in plain face; level 3, "Spain" in bold face. Why is the subordinate heading more prominent than the superordinate heading? Thx, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 04:51, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I disagree that the level 3 headings are more prominent in any of these four skins, though they do look too similar for my taste in Timeless. I don't know the exact design decisions that went into making the headings look the way they do, since I'm not a developer; for that, consider asking a member of the Web team. In any case, I'm not seeing a bug here. – Rummskartoffel 12:09, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Tqq
To the best of my understanding, J. Doe with a default environment will see level 2 headings in plain face; level 3 in bold face; similar or same font size in both. Most people will agree that bold is more prominent than plain.... PeterEasthope (talk) 17:47, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Tqq
Will do, thanks.... PeterEasthope (talk) 17:47, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I also find level 3 more prominent than level 2. I'm used to it now, but was initially confused as L2 seemed to be a subsection within L3. I use Legacy Vector (if I'd wanted a narrow screen, I'd have bought one) but standard Vector has similar headings. Certes (talk) 13:09, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Me to. I use Monobook and H3s are bold and look more prominent which always seemed wrong. MB 16:00, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
C>I'm used to it now, but was initially confused as L2 seemed to be a subsection within L3.
We all accepted it for too long. Ref. The Emperor's New Clothes. Regards, ... PeterEasthope (talk) 17:47, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I guess this is all a matter of subjective personal taste, but I, for one, see level 2 headings as clearly superior to the L3–L6s. After all, they're in a larger typeface Template:Em they have that great, big horizontal rule stretching all the way across the page. I think one of the Vector skins shows me no discernable difference between H5 and H6 (only), but in my usual skin, Monobook, all the levels are clearly and recognizably differently sized. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 22:00, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's certainly skin-dependent. I've checked out four properties (font-family, font-weight, border-bottom and font-size) for all six heading levels in four skins. Three properties are easily summarised:
  • MonoBook uses a normal-weight sans-serif font for all heading levels
  • Timeless uses a normal-weight serif font for all heading levels
  • Vector and Minerva use a serif font for levels 1 and 2 only, but sans-serif for levels 3, 4, 5 and 6
  • Vector and Minerva use bold for levels 3 and 4 only, normal weight for levels 1, 2, 5 and 6
  • MonoBook, Timeless and Vector show bottom borders (n.b. not horizontal rules) for levels 1 and 2 only, none for levels 3 to 6 - Minerva does not use borders at all.
The fourth is best presented as a table:
The font-size: property
Level MonoBook Timeless Vector Minerva
h1 188% 2em 1.8em 1.7em
h2 150% 1.8em 1.5em 1.5em
h3 128% 1.6em 1.2em 1.2em
h4 116% 1.4em 100% 100%
h5 108% 1.25em
h6 100% 1.2em
The Vector results are the same for "old" and "new" variants. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 00:02, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
"Old" is post-mw:Typography refresh Vector, rather than "original" Vector. The last major update to Vector was in late 2013 and 2014. That was when the ==Level 2 section headings== started using a serif font. If memory serves, this decision was driven by research (e.g., what font is easiest for people to read on a computer screen) rather than someone's aesthetic view.
About making changes: The archives for this page will show many people complaining about it the day that it hit, some people still complaining a week or two later, and only one or two editors still unhappy with it a month or two later. Apparently we hate having the fonts changed, but we get used to the new appearance on approximately the same time schedule that every other major website has found. I would expect the same outcome if similar changes are made in the future. Partly because of remembering that experience, I've stuck with the default skin at sites that have adopted New Vector. I've encountered some hiccups along the way, and re-locating the search box has proven to be surprisingly difficult for me to adapt to (but maybe if all the wikis were the same, I'd have gotten used to it faster?), but it no longer seems foreign and bad, and I have found one clear advantage: I haven't ever accidentally clicked the "Log out" button in New Vector.
(Important note to anyone thinking about changing the fonts in the future: Please don't.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:00, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Anarchism quality/ importance issuesEdit

Hi all - was pointed to come here with this question from the help desk. Currently, some articles that have an importance assessment are showing up as "NA", even though they have an importance scale assigned to them. I was wondering if there was a way to fix this? Wikipedia:WikiProject Anarchism Jamzze (talk) 20:05, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please link to one or two articles with this problem. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:46, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jamzze: And make sure they really are articles. I suspect the "articles" you have in mind are actually redirects but it's hard to tell without an example. Always include an example. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:54, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yup, looks like they're redirects that have their class set. I just fixed one of them. --rchard2scout (talk) 12:43, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi all - thanks so much - I had no idea! Will have a look at the redirects and change that then. Jamzze (talk) 17:08, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Replyto Explicitly setting Template:Para is rarely necessary, because most WikiProject banners will autodetect it; Milhist is a rare exception. Unless the page is an actual article or a disambiguation page, it's normally best to omit the Template:Para parameter, or leave it blank. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:26, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Rollback on mobile devicesEdit

On two occasions lately I have fat-fingered rollback. On both occasions a dialog box opened that asked me if I really wanted to do that. On both occasions I answered “Cancel”, but it performed the rollback anyway. I need to disable this for myself, as I don’t tend to use rollback and obviously the option is causing more harm than good, but I thought maybe a technical-minded person could look into it. Thank you! 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 02:57, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Re before diving in any further, would you please check Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets and confirm if your option for Template:Tq is checked? — xaosflux Talk 17:07, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re Yes, it is, thank you for asking. And in fact, the confirmation is popping up just like it should. The problem is that when "Cancel" is selected, the rollback is performed anyway. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 17:10, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re thank you, can you provide an example of the last time this occurred? I suspected it might have been Special:AbuseFilter/examine/1436794383? Can you be a bit more specific about your interface? Are you using the mobile application (ios or android), or the mobile web? If using a mobile device and web, are you using "desktop view"? — xaosflux Talk 17:23, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@78.26 Which browser, device, and skin are you using? MusikAnimal talk 17:25, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re, Template:Re, the last two examples are: [3] and [4]. This is on an Apple iPhone 6s, Software Version 14.6., Safari browser, "desktop view" (sorry, I really don't like mobile view). Does that help? 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 17:35, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re using that same browser, would you mind sharing your useragent? You can fetch that from sites such as Google using this link. Feel free to redact any version numbers in there. — xaosflux Talk 17:52, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just a note, this is MediaWiki:Gadget-confirmationRollback-mobile.js. — xaosflux Talk 17:56, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 14_6 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko). 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 18:04, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@78.26 Thanks. I unfortunately have no way of testing the behaviour on an iPhone, but I do recall someone reporting this same issue before and they were also using an iPhone. Could you try using a different browser, such as Chrome or Firefox? That will at least narrow it down to a Safari issue. The gadget itself is extremely simple and should in theory work in virtually all browsers. MusikAnimal talk 20:50, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Allright, I'll make some test edits with my alternate account and then try to "not-rollback" on both the Safari browser and Chrome. (I've never used Chrome on my mobile device, guess I'll see how I like it...) I'll ping you with the result. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 20:56, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@MusikAnimal: I presume this is bad news, but on both browsers (Safari, Chrome, both using Desktop view) I hit "rollback" and selected "Cancel" each time. I never selected "OK" on either browser. If you check my edit history you'll see the discouraging results. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 21:14, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re Yes, bad news :( That must mean it's an iPhone issue, I suppose. I will try to find a device (or virtual device) to debug this further. For now, since you say you rarely use rollback, you could hide the links entirely with User:MusikAnimal/rollbackTouch.js. MusikAnimal talk 21:34, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:ReThanks! My next question was going to be if I could disable this (you can't in Preferences, already looked) because I can think of twice I've used rollback on purpose. Thank you also, Template:U. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 21:38, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you never use rollback on desktop either, you can simply hide them by adding
.mw-rollback-link {
  display: none;
}
to your common.css. That would be simpler and faster than installing that script or enabling the gadget. Nardog (talk) 21:53, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, I was going to suggest that, but it leaves a lingering pipe character next to "undo". In order to remove that you need to remove the outer span which doesn't have a CSS class or ID. We could hide the first span under .mw-changeslist-links, but I'm not sure that accounts for rollback links in all places, or if there are cases where rollback isn't in the first span. Finally, the script only targets mobile devices (though 78.26 made it clear they don't use rollback on any device). But anyway, yes, a CSS-only solution is always more efficient. MusikAnimal talk 22:22, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's only true on history. On Contributions, Watchlist and RecentChanges the whole list item gets removed. It also has the problem of not taking effect after a live update. Nardog (talk) 22:27, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Bah! Okay I've removed the .parent() (which I only added just before I commented here). A pity that the HTML isn't consistent across change lists. Thanks for pointing that out! I can do the special handling for history pages, I suppose.
Good point also about live update. This script I believe predates the live feature of Watchlist and RecentChanges, though of course other scripts/gadgets could dynamically add rollback links as well. I'll fix that, but for anyone reading this who wants to hide rollback links forever and always, like Template:U, use the CSS Nardog mentioned above :) I assume for most people the stray pipe characters on history pages is not much of a nuisance. MusikAnimal talk 22:38, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It would be simpler if you just added a class to Template:Tag if the user agent indicates a mobile device and hid rollback links under that class in CSS. Nardog (talk) 22:51, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Nardog Clever! That's a pure JS solution (assuming you'll use mw.util.addCSS(), so there's still a bit of delay as opposed to pure CSS, but that seems more than acceptable here. I'll give this a go when I find the time. If you wanted to write something yourself I'll happily review it and merge it into the gadget. Just ping me :) MusikAnimal talk 05:38, 27 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's really weird that the rollback gets performed despite choosing Cancel, as opposed to the gadget not taking effect at all. I can totally see the gadget failing when used on Ajax-updated pages though, since it's attaching the handler to .mw-rollback-link just once, directly. I think it should either make use of event delegation as in $(document.body).on('click', '.mw-rollback-link', function (e) {... or hook it to wikipage.content and attach the handler every time the page is updated.
$(".mw-rollback-link").parent().remove() removes not just the links but the whole list items with them (i.e. .parent() is unnecessary). But I don't understand why you wouldn't just hide them in CSS. Nardog (talk) 21:53, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Od Only after this lengthy discussion did I recall meta:WMDE Technical Wishes/Rollback which has been around for a while now. In Preferences > Appearance, look for "Show a confirmation prompt when clicking on a rollback link". This makes it work much like the "Thank" button which requires a second click to confirm. However there appears to be some UI issues in the Advanced Mode on mobile. But for those who only work off of the desktop UI (be it on a mobile device or otherwise), this is a nice solution to the problem. MusikAnimal talk 05:47, 27 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Re sorta - that will also force the link when not "on mobile" too. — xaosflux Talk 12:30, 27 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Media Search is available for all users on Wikimedia CommonsEdit

Hello! We wanted to make a gentle reminder that, since last May, there is a new default way to search files and other media on Commons. Special:MediaSearch has been developed in the past year to make use of the structured data on Commons and information from Wikidata in order to provide users with more relevant and extensive results, regardless of the language used for the query.

The new interface allows users to access some of the file information (licensing, description…) directly on the page, gives users various options to better filter results, and relies on Wikidata's concept-linking abilities and multilingual labels. Special:Search remains available for users for cases when its purposeful wikitext-based search may be more appropriate to use.

MediaSearch is just one part of the larger Structured Data Across Wikimedia project, which aims to structure content on wikitext pages, to make reading, editing, and searching easier and more accessible across projects and on the Internet. If you want to learn more about the project, please visit the project pages on MediaWiki, subscribe to the SDAW Newsletter, or get in touch with us on the project's talk page. The Structured Data team looks forward to continuing work on opening up Wikimedia content. Thanks! -- Sannita (WMF) (talk) 13:58, 27 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Difficulty in editing templates using the VisualEditorEdit

Sorry, I'm not sure if this is the right place for this message but here goes. The VisualEditor is a more accesible way of editing and I really think we should make as many of our pages work with it as is possible. I have come across various templates such as List of listed buildings in Stonehaven, Aberdeenshire, aviation destination lists on airport pages, and multi-column templates, that make it harder or impossible to edit and add references using the VisualEditor. In frustration, I created a deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2021_July_11#Template:Airport_destination_list but it was kept, and to be honest I felt the keep arguments were unconvincing.

I suppose I want to see if anyone has the same feelings as me here, and if an argument could be made for removing these templates on the grounds of their negative impact on accessibility. Especially in the case of templates creating tables, I just don't think it's beneficial as experienced editors still know how to edit table syntax in the source code editor, but new editors or those who find the VisualEditor easier to use are locked out from editing. Could multiple columns be created using a div and CSS, avoiding the need for a template? If we want new editors to cite their sources, we need to make it easy for them to do so. NemesisAT (talk) 11:39, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't use VE, but doesn't Template:Tl's documentation need a TemplateData section in order to make it usable with VE? I thought that was required, or at least required for ease of use. Template:Tl, which is used in the list article, is also lacking TemplateData code. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:11, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm unable to experiment with TemplateData on Template:T as it has been locked, however my gripe with it was that you can't add citations, or indeed any formatting, unless you know the wikicode off-by-heart at which point you may as well use the source editor anyway. In fact, I believe it is not possible to add a citation or use WYSIWYG editing for any template paramter within the VisualEditor. Regarding the listed buildings template, that article is actually one template containing many more within it. It appears to be too much for the VisualEditor to load but again even if it did load, as the entire article is located within template parameters it is impossible to use VisualEditor tools to edit it, you're stuck with using source code within the VisualEditor. Hopefully this makes sense! TemplateData is good but I don't think it would resolve the issues I'm facing here. NemesisAT (talk) 16:20, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Somewhat perversely, TemplateData code is stored in the templates' documentation pages, which are not protected, so you should be able to add it yourself, to each of the templates in question. I don't think it makes sense to assume that the templates would not work with VE if they were properly equipped with TemplateData code; try it first before giving up. For help in adding that code, your best bet is probably Wikipedia:Help desk. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Ah of course, I forgot that it's on the documentation page. I'll have a look. NemesisAT (talk) 16:57, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I have started a TemplateData for Template:T, but it will never be able to help you with adding a reference as the reference tools are all in the main VisualEditor toolbar, whereas the parameters of a template can only be edited in plain text. I should note that I am able to use the source code editor, in fact, I used to be opposed to the VisualEditor (both on here and on Wikia), but as it has developed, I've realised it is much easier for editing large tables and long pages with lots of references in them. NemesisAT (talk) 17:49, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Three thoughts:
  • @Johanna Strodt (WMDE) will want to see this, since WMDE is currently working on how to edit templates in the visual editor.
  • Most table-oriented templates were created a long time ago. MediaWiki originally used plain old HTML to create tables (a pair of <tr> tags for each row, a pair of <td> tags for each cell, etc.) The creation of a wikitext syntax (|-for a new row, || to separate cells on the same line) for made it easier, but it's still hard, especially when the table is large, or if you want any colors or other fancy formatting. Editors created table templates because it was easier than the wikitext for large or heavily formatted tables. However, now that the visual editor handles all of "code" parts for you, it is generally easier to edit tables in the visual editor than to wrangle templates (unless you want colored text). I particularly recommend the visual editor to anyone who needs to add, remove, or rearrange the columns in an existing table.
  • You can add and edit templates even if a TemplateData section doesn't exist. It's just (usually) more difficult.
Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:51, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's interesting, I didn't know about the history of the table syntax. NemesisAT (talk) 17:51, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The specific WMDE link is meta:WMDE Technical Wishes/VisualEditor template dialog improvements. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 17:42, 27 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Late to the party but... sending a template to TfD on the grounds that it's difficult to edit in VE could be seen as WP:POINTy. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:17, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Here are some scatter brain thoughts (without reviewing that TFD):
  1. Templates can ensure intra-article consistency. While that is not something we necessarily need to preserve, it can be a nice benefit of table templates.
  2. Templates can indicate the good 'default' information to include. (A drawback is sometimes that's an infobox with 50 parameters. ;)
  3. Templates can restrict what is included, e.g. as in fan-driven wiki articles.
  4. They are easier even than wiki syntax to deal with by experienced editors. Just because we know how doesn't mean we prefer to know.
They have detracting points too of course.
  1. VE dislikes them. (BTW the Phab task you are looking for is phab:T52182 and related. It's old.)
  2. Do we really need standardization across all such articles for all such tables?
I know in the past that some of table templates have been deleted as being generally unnecessary, but certainly not all. And those have mostly been table-start, table-row, table-end type templates, not templates that compose the entire construct.
Another Phab task of interest might be phab:T54582 for the specific template.
A specific point: Template:Tq Yes, but we don't want users to do that. It's fundamentally gross and requires inline CSS. In the case of reference blocks, one might consider advocating to remove Template:Tl in the general case in lieu of <references/> since most people probably don't need what it provides anymore (columns of references), and where they do they could instead use Template:Tl, which wouldn't make VE sad. Making general columns like Template:Tl does is somewhere on my to do list, but I don't know when I'll get to a nice version. Izno (talk) 17:00, 27 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Number of editors per projectEdit

In one discussion somewhere I saw a graph of active editors in English Wikipedia compared to those of French Wikipedia. I think the graphs were a screenshot of one of the autogenerated statistics pages. Anyone know what that page might have been and could you provide a link? Regards, A Thousand Words (talk) 06:07, 28 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have no idea about that (I don't remember seeing any graphs), but at List of Wikipedias#Editions overview the table there has similar information for the more-or-less current moment. No idea if that satisfies your requirements. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 08:15, 28 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Replyto Special:ActiveUsers gives a list of all the editors who have performed an edit on the English Wikipedia in the last 30 days, you can retrieve the number of active users using the {{NUMBEROFACTIVEUSERS}} magic word. Numbers for all projects are availiable on meta at meta:List of Wikipedias. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 12:23, 28 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The magicword only works on the local wiki, for any wiki: {{NUMBEROF|users|fr}} = Template:NUMBEROF or {{NUMBEROF|activeusers|fr}} = Template:NUMBEROF -- GreenC 12:31, 28 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Found this page with Statistics, it shows number of active users over the last 12 months. The average is also shown, about 40K users for that time period. Found it via some searching and clicking the right links. A Thousand Words (talk) 19:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mapframe border disappearedEdit

Template:Maplink

Template:Maplink

Following up from here, I'm continuing to have two issues with the Mapframe at Pomona College#Campus. The first (this thread) is that the boundary line has disappeared. The odd thing here is that it worked fine for a day or so when I first added it, but then it disappeared without any edits to the article/Wikidata item/OSM item I'm aware of, and it hasn't come back. The bug is replicated above at center.

The partial workaround I've found is to change Template:Para to Template:Para, as shown above at right. However, even with the fill opacity set to zero, it still means anywhere in the interior of the campus becomes clickable with the title popping up. I'd much prefer it to return to the behavior from the line type before starting the FAC; does anyone know how to get that working again? Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}}talk 19:15, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's hard to say, but generally, I don't think shapes are supposed to be available in the line service. I'd be surprised if they were. Then again, our change in the osmdb sync has brought to light multiple changes already, so maybe there is an error. I really can't say. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:54, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@TheDJ, the OSM feature from which the boundary is (I think) being derived is way 458898308, which is a line rather than a shape. I know some other institutions have a relation in addition to a way; I don't really understand what the difference is between those or if that might be related to the issue. Also, I'm not sure what you're referring to with "osmdb sync". {{u|Sdkb}}talk 18:57, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@TheDJ, okay, so I found phab:T285668. I'm still not quite sure what to do about this, though. Just drawing a line on the boundary rather than an infilled shape (using "service": "geoline" rather than "service": "geoshape") seems like something that ought to be possible, and it was possible until a week or so ago but now it seems it's not. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 20:42, 28 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's not related, that ticket is about the toolforge OSM maps, which are way more broken than wikimedia maps at this point. There isn't a ticket about this particular issue yet, but i suspect it has something to do with the new way the import/update of the OSM database is being handled now. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:51, 28 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Okay, thanks for the info; I created a phab ticket at phab:T294598. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}}talk 21:08, 28 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Other admin deletion logs showing up on my watchlistEdit

 
Filter options on recent changes, but the same interface can be found on the watchlist

I haven't lately checked - or unchecked - anything different on my Watchlist preferences. But my Watchlist is starting to show me the logs of Admin users. ANI suggested I uncheck the "logged actions" box. I don't see such a box, either on my Watchlist page, or on my Preferences. And it doesn't seem to be all admin logs that are showing up. Just two or three a day. Today's says "09:57 (Deletion log)‎ [Kusma‎; Favonian‎; Blablubbs‎]". And that's how it seems everyday. How do I stop this? — Maile (talk) 15:37, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Re as far as I know, that happens when a page on your watchlist is deleted. At the top of your watchlist, there should be a box that says "Active filters". If it's hidden, click the "show" button. Then you can click the X next to "Logged actions" to stop showing them in your watchlist. I think that only lasts as long as you stay on the current watchlist page, but there's a bookmark icon to the right that allows you to save your filter preferences (mw:Help:New filters for edit review/Filtering). clpo13(talk) 15:55, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Something is missing here. "Active filters" is not on mine, but I can click on "Show", but the drop down does not give me the option of "Logged actions". — Maile (talk) 16:10, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Do you have the "Use non-JavaScript interface" option checked in your watchlist preferences? That would show the old watchlist options, which doesn't include the newer, advanced filters. clpo13(talk) 16:26, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Aaahhhhhhhh ... I unchecked it, and the problem went away. Thanks. — Maile (talk) 16:33, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Color of "You have new messages" alert for IP editorsEdit

See Template:Sectionlink. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 00:31, 30 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Updating infobox templatesEdit

Scenario: 10k articles use the same infobox template. That template has code that hasn't been changed for 10 years (consider it deprecated). New template is ready. What are some advices and tips for the best workflow which causes the less amount of chaos with articles? Asking for cases outside of EnWiki. - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:57, 21 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tell us more about the changes. Are there incompatible parameters? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:38, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Whatamidoing (WMF), at most cases, no. But let's assume I have around 10 infoboxes suffering from the same problem and some of they may have totally new code syntax, for example having changed from traditional wiki text to Lua module invocations.
Real situation: Admin at SqWiki. Some infoboxes are outdated, we want to update them mirroring EnWiki. It's been month we've postponed that because we're worried about the chaos that my continue from that. Today I finally got the courage and updated the infobox related to musical artists, which was transcluded in +700 articles. The number of parameters and their type was more or less the same but in English so what I did was import the EnWiki version in a temporary name in SqWiki, get all the articles that it was transcluded on, feed that list on AWB together with 10 find and replace regex-es which would change the parameters on them (just translate them on English basically) and let my robot take over. Removed the old template, move the new one to the old name. Voila!
I was wondering if there are any other better ways I'm missing out on. - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:50, 22 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think – and someone should please correct me if I'm wrong – that all of the good solutions inspire editors to improve the article on Vaporware, and that your current appropach is the most typical, and best, of the existing (poor) options. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:12, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Whatamidoing (WMF), thanks for the answer. I was thinking I never got an answer back in this post. Good to know I'm on the right track. :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:18, 30 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Another potential option, for future use, would be to make the old template a wrapper for the new template. This ensures compatibility with the new parameters (and means you don't miss anything). Once this is done, you create a subst-only version of the old template, which then can be subst'ed away and replaced by the new template. Primefac (talk) 07:57, 31 October 2021 (UTC) Template:PporReply[reply]

Article in mutually contradicting categoriesEdit

Rehelim is in both Category:Short description matches Wikidata and Category:Short description is different from Wikidata. Any explanation? Abductive (reasoning) 23:14, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

There is no such thing as contradicting categories from a category system point of view... — xaosflux Talk 23:19, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
{{short description|Israeli settlement in the West Bank}} matches Wikidata but the infobox automatically adds the different short description "Place in Judea and Samaria Area". The first short description is used. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:27, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Ec In short - there are 2 templates that are pushing those categories, Template:Tl and Template:Tl - that later of which requires more patience than I have right now to unravel. — xaosflux Talk 23:28, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is a perennial topic at WT:Short description. Brilliant solutions are welcome. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:56, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
At the very least, update the documentation for Template:Infobox Israel village to let editors know what it is they are invoking when they use it? — xaosflux Talk 00:04, 30 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  Done. Never let anyone say I didn't do the very least. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:31, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Advice regarding a template updateEdit

I am seeking advice regarding Template:Tl. Currently the template does not function as described in the templat's documentation nor at Category:Wikipedia articles incorporating the template EB1911 poster with no parameters where it reluctantly states that failing to designate the article's title using the first unnamed parameter defaults to using {{PAGENAME}} albeit advisable to avoid. Currently, no such link is produced by such default although I have worked up a functioning solution in the templat's sandbox. Yet, because the template is protected, and I don't wish to use the TE flag inappropriately, I ask: would it be better for me to rewrite the instructions to correspond with the templat's functionality, or recode the template to correspond with the instructions? Additionally, the category's title makes it seem that the template was used without any parameters being used when in fact it only red flags and categorizes based on whether or not {{{1|}}} is used (even when other parameters are used). In this case I ask: should the category be moved to a more accurate title (like Category:Wikipedia articles incorporating the template EB1911 poster without designating the article's title for example) or here again, simply rewrite the instructions to accurately describe what triggers the categorization of member pages? Thank you for considering this request, and for any advice given. I appreciate the opportunity to learn from those regularly watching this page.--John Cline (talk) 10:19, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Shouldn't these questions be asked at Template talk:EB1911 poster. Doesn't seem like an appropriate topic for WP:VPT.
Trappist the monk (talk) 11:37, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for your reply. I'll move the thread to that page. --John Cline (talk) 12:28, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@John Cline: Template:Tq Template editor was granted to you because you are trusted to perform changes to pages protected so. Unless you have a COI of some sort (which it's hard to think would be applicable to a 110-year-old revision of Britannica), do what you think is best for the Wikipedia. Izno (talk) 12:35, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you Izno, I appreciate your reply. I've already moved the discussion to Template talk:EB1911 poster#Advice regarding an update of this template so I'll leave it open for a little while and mark this thread as resolved. Thanks again.--John Cline (talk) 13:03, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Resolved

Indentation bug in mobileEdit

Compare the mobile view and desktop view of an old version Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2021-10-31/Book review. For some reason, using a colon for indentation in the first para after the Signpost templates shows a large blank area in mobile view. I replaced the colon with <div style="margin-left:1em;"> which displays properly in mobile web. I have occassionally seen this type of bug in talk pages too. Any idea what's the reason behind this? ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 14:33, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A colon is not for indentation. This is a bad habit we developed on talk pages, but generally a colon is part of a definition list. We generally use the template Template:Tl or any of it's more specific children templates for styling this. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:11, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The content there would probably better use Template:Tl. --Izno (talk) 15:20, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Block new account creation only?Edit

As a way to fight persistent creation of new socks on a /16 IP range with lots of legitimate traffic, I'm thinking the best tool might be to partial-block the /16 from some rarely-used namespace (say, "Gadget Definition Talk") and also tick the "Block account creation" box. I think that would have the effect of letting everybody, including IPs, continue to edit, yet prevent new socks from being generated. I assume that would work? Any reason not to do something like that? -- RoySmith (talk) 15:55, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That's cute. I would use a namespace that most people can't edit such as Gadget or MediaWiki, not a talk namespace, leaning to MediaWiki because that one is guaranteed not to go anywhere. If I were to do something like this. And if it works. Izno (talk) 16:40, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re you don't need that hack, you can just do what you want to do - see example at testwiki:Special:Redirect/logid/266527. — xaosflux Talk 16:58, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Interesting. Hey, could you give me a mop on testwiki so I can play with this? -- RoySmith (talk) 17:14, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, I see what you did. Select "Partial", leave "Pages" and "Namespaces" both blank, and tick "Block account creation"? I just assumed you had to put something into one of Pages or Namespaces, but I guess not? -- RoySmith (talk) 17:17, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  Done and nope - not required to actually include any "editing" blockage. — xaosflux Talk 17:36, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
That's pretty cool. I'll keep that in mind if I ever need to only prevent account creation from a range. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 18:17, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is a very neat trick! I wish I had known about this since partial blocks were introduced. I think this deserves documentation. For starters I've added a note at Wikipedia:Blocking IP addresses and Wikipedia:Partial blocks. MusikAnimal talk 17:00, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tech News: 2021-44Edit

<section begin="technews-2021-W44"/>

<section end="technews-2021-W44"/>

20:26, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Sprites?Edit

Prompted by WP:VPM#Very big pages, I took a look at 2021 in mammal paleontology. A big chunk of the load time is a pile of tiny png files of national flags, many of which are smaller than 200 bytes (i.e. the HTTP headers swamp the data). This seems like a perfect use for sprites. Does the mediawiki software support that in any way? -- RoySmith (talk) 15:35, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No, that's not how the web works. That said, the fix is obvious: Remove the "pile of tiny png files of national flags". Izno (talk) 16:12, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
There are around 58 different flags. That's not so bad. Many articles have around 200. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:33, 29 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
CSS image sprites is one approach to convert loading multiple little images into loading a single image. In theory, someone could make a template to encapsulate the inner workings away for something like a composite image of all the national flags. More investigation is needed to determine how much savings it might provide, and weigh it against the cost of maintaining a composite image. isaacl (talk) 05:17, 30 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re could be a possible solution when template size is exceeded on some list pages as well. — xaosflux Talk 12:10, 30 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This is doable with TemplateStyles, IIRC. We'd need to put together a standard sheet with all the flags that an article might use, though. (We couldn't practically have a separate sheet specifically for the flags used in a particular article, nor is there a system for generating them like that.) I don't know if this would make sense to do from a performance perspective. --Yair rand (talk) 17:47, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The problem with sprites for something like this, is that it only really works well if the same images are used a lot on the same page. Having a sprite with 500 different flags while most pages only use one flag or 0 flags, doesn't really make sense either. This is where optimising for Wikipedia becomes really difficult. Our pages are just all so different that many common optimisation strategies don't apply. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:24, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tools downEdit

Template:Tracked

Just a heads up: There's a bunch of toolforge-based services (and possibly others?) down right now. I'm told there's a network issue in the toolforge infrastructure that's to blame and it's being worked on. So if something's not working, that's probably why. RoySmith-Mobile (talk) 12:55, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Latest update: "The incident has been resolved, all the alerts will start clearing up shortly. If you still see some issues, please ping us ... on IRC (#wikimedia-cloud on libera.chat)." -- RoySmith (talk) 14:15, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

[Read-only time] Wednesday 3rd November 06:00 AM UTCEdit

A maintenance operation will be performed on Wednesday 3rd November 06:00 AM UTC. It should only last for a few minutes. During this time, publishing edits will not be possible at English Wikipedia.

For more details about the operation and on all impacted services, please check on Phabricator.

A banner will be displayed 30 minutes before the operation.

Please help your community to be aware of this maintenance operation. Thank you!

Trizek (WMF) (talk) 15:03, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

When a revert isn't a revertEdit

Hi! Can we all agree the software should only use the term revert to mean undoing somebody's edit to the previous state, you know like the word means? Currently it is possible to hit the undo button AND THEN MAKE ANY UNRELATED CHANGES, and the poor sob making the original change will see his changes "reverted". This is not a theoretical concern, I just got bitten by it. --Palosirkka (talk) 14:46, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Replyto Could you explain what the issue is, because I'm not seeing the issue from that article's history. You fixed the logo size, but did so using the wrong syntax. Ahunt came along and fixed the syntax for you. You reverted his edit because ???, then Ahunt reverted your revert. The only diffs in that chain that are tagged as "undo" (i.e. having involved clicking the undo button) are your revert and Ahunt's revert of your revert. The only edits that are tagged as "reverted" Ahunt fixing the syntax and you removing Ahunt's fix. As far as I can see everything is correct? 192.76.8.77 (talk) 14:58, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:ReplytoThe issue is Ahunt didnt revert my change returning the article to it's previous state but ALSO made other changes. Yet the software called it all misleadingly 'reverted'. Do you now see my point? I reverted precisely because of the word reverted was used without looking at the diff. This misleading lingo can lead to such silly reverts and even "edit wars". --Palosirkka (talk) 15:05, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It's a partial reversion, or a "revert and do differently". However, the software does label any change made with the undo button a reversion, even if it keeps the previous edit intact and changes something unrelated. Please try not to take the "Reverted" tag personally. It doesn't necessarily mean your edit is being criticised. On this occasion, you spotted a problem and partially solved it, allowing another editor to stand on your shoulders and finish the job. Certes (talk) 15:12, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And that should be changed. I don't take it personally at all but it causes unneccessary re-reverts. --Palosirkka (talk) 15:17, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Tq So you deliberately edit warred without reviewing the changes in the revision? That seems blockable. Maybe you shouldn't do that instead. Izno (talk) 15:13, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
lol, no. I reverted Ahunt's edit because the software claimed he had removed my useful change. --Palosirkka (talk) 15:17, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think your point is clear, but unfortunately, things aren't so simple in our world (and the "Undid revision 1052844..." text that appears in the edit summary field with "undo" is only a suggestion; editors are free to adapt that text as appropriate). In the world in which we're working, edit summaries are very often incomplete, misleading or missing altogether. It behooves us all to actually check the diffs we undo/revert/rollback; after all, we take responsibility for each and every edit we make Template:Em even more than ES or "Reverted" flags. I hope you can consider this one of those "lessons learned" and continue contributing to Wikipedia with this knowledge helping you. Technically, I think it'd be very hard to revise the system so that any edits before saving an "undone" edit negate the application of the "Reverted" marker in th histories. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 15:32, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Tq No that's already been done (phab:T259014). Nardog (talk) 15:35, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Replyto No he didn't - It's tagged as "reverted" because you reverted it - edits which are performing a revert are tagged "undo" or "manual revert" depending upon how you do them. The first edit he made to the page [6] is not a revert in any sense of the word - he just moved the 90px into it's correct section of the infobox. It was not performed using the undo button, it is not a manual revert and the software did not tag it as such. 192.76.8.77 (talk) 15:22, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:ReplytoGood catch! So, the example is wrong. Sorry for that folks... However I still think the undo button should only remove the edit in question without allowing other changes. --Palosirkka (talk) 15:31, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just a note, there was a similar discussion here last week, which generally seems to indicate that such actions are perfectly acceptable, though obviously if further changes are made they are indicated in the edit summary. Primefac (talk) 16:01, 31 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just to chime in. I agree with the sentiment here. I also want to add that I think the word "revert" has gained a toxic overtone among the general public in relation to Wikipedia. I've seen people online complain "your edits get reverted by power users" countless times. That's probably because we overuse the term. It really should only be used for things like obvious vandalism. Good faith edits should not be "reverted" and a explanatory edit summary should be given. Jason Quinn (talk) 17:16, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Portal:Current_events is not formatted correctly at large screensEdit

It seems that the image at the TITN is breaking the format of the whole page. Purging does nothing, but zooming until the TITN text is taller than the picture does display the page as it should be. - 49.147.242.233 (talk) 09:24, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Portal:Current events/Headlines/styles.css was fixed to correct for this error. - 49.147.242.233 (talk) 12:17, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Diff-related user scripts brokenEdit

Some diff-related user scripts may have been broken by https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T285857, which modified the HTML structure of diffs. New CSS classes were added, and there may have been other changes too. Enterprisey (talk!) 06:32, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the heads-up. Based on the log, the changes AFAICS are:
  • Template:Tags (including headers) now have a diff-side-deleted or diff-side-added class to indicate which pane.
  • The markers (pluses and minuses) are now in the data-marker attribute, which is then shown in a pseudo-element.
  • Empty lines now have Template:Tag instead of a non-breaking space
Nardog (talk) 07:41, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

IP constantly varying between an Ipv6 and an Ipv4 addressEdit

It's constantly switching between these two addresses. Why? --2A02:AA1:1625:94FC:19BF:E15A:695E:13F (talk) 14:41, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No WD linkEdit

Two weeks later there still is no WD link. WD link enables link to Wikidata item next to name at Wikipedia page. Why there is no information about this gadget or redirect to certain description in Wikipedia space or Wikidata item? Eurohunter (talk) 18:38, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Re quickly going through the archives, it looks like you are trying to load a personal user script from wikidata, in to your personal global javascript - and are having some trouble with it? I suggest you start by contacting the user who's script you are loading at the project they host it in. — xaosflux Talk 18:46, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re No. I have it enabled in ENWP preferences (probably) and it worked here for some months or years until last month. What happened? Eurohunter (talk) 18:59, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It just started working again foor no reason. Eurohunter (talk) 19:19, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I already told you that at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 192#WD link: "d:User:Yair rand/WikidataInfo.js is loaded in meta:User:Eurohunter/global.js". Please read old answers and link old discussions when you report an issue. In the old discussion you said "it works elsewhere" but didn't give an example. Always include an example. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:19, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re Yes but it was loaded there long time ago so why it didn't worked for 2 weeks? "it works elsewhere" - I mean every Wikipedia version expect ENWP so what I was supposed to say? I thought "elsewhere" is abvious and means every version expect ENWP. Right? Eurohunter (talk) 16:25, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
It could be lots of things, you could start by unloading all of these and only loading the one script - sometimes there are timing issues or other conflicts between javascripts. See also mw:Help:Locating broken scripts. — xaosflux Talk 17:00, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I asked about Simple and you said "it still doesn't works in ENWP and SimpleWP and it works elsewhere". That claims it doesn't work in the only other place I asked about. Now you apparently claim it did work at Simple. Claims that something works or doesn't work everywhere are often false. There are 325 Wikipedias and around 600 other Wikimedia wikis where meta:User:Eurohunter/global.js is loaded. You obviously didn't test all of them. "elsewhere" includes Commons and so on. Even if the claim is right, readers don't know that and may spend significant time testing it at various places to see if any of them give or don't give the reported problem for themselves. Always give an example. ALWAYS. Helpers waste a huge amount of time on posts which don't give examples. You are also more likely to get fast and relevant answers when you give an example. Something in your personal JavaScript or gadgets may conflict with the script. Scripts are loaded in partially random order and the order may affect the result. If it fails again then try to log out, view an example page, and enter mw.loader.load('https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=User:Yair_rand/WikidataInfo.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript'); in the web console (Ctrl+Shift+K in Firefox on Windows). PrimeHunter (talk) 17:14, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mapframe references don't display within descriptionsEdit

Template:Maplink

Following up from here, the second issue I've been having with the Mapframe at Pomona College#Campus (first in thread directly above) is that references don't display properly within the description field. Click on the pin at right to see how <ref>{{cite news|last1=Fitz|first1=Allison|date=14 February 2020|title=New Rains Center to be completed by 2022; 5Cs prepare for construction's effects|work=[[The Student Life]]|url=https://tsl.news/new-rains-center-to-be-remodeled/|access-date=2 December 2020}}</ref> gets mangled. The same thing happens with SFNs, which I'd also like to use. I haven't been able to make progress on this since last time, so it may require a phab ticket; if that's the case, I'm mostly looking to understand how to better present the issue to increase the likelihood it gets taken up. Thanks in advance for the help, {{u|Sdkb}}talk 19:15, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Courtesy pinging those who commented previously: Template:Re see also the thread immediately above. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 19:15, 23 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sdkb T28213 is the general class this bug belongs to. Tgr (WMF) (talk) 01:04, 24 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
This problem is because the templates used here just dump wikitext into geojson. But geojson doesn't support wikitext or html, geojson only supports text only descriptions. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:05, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The lua/template probably can use killMarkers to remove the references from the input. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:10, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I tried that, but mw.text.killMarkers and mw.text.unstrip don't seem to work any more (only mw.text.unstripNoWiki seems still functional). Is there any downside to removing the stripmarker with gsub? —  Jts1882 | talk  15:55, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Re Mapframe does seem able to handle images, so I think that means it's able to convert at least some types of wikitext into proper output. Would getting it to do the same with references be feasible, or is that out of the question? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 19:00, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Maplink/sandbox Template:Replyto I think I fixed it in the sandbox ? Markers include control characters and because control characters cannot be in json, these were getting stripped from the input. By moving that logic to later in the flow and using killMarkers on content explictely meant for the json body, I think we can work around both problems. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:24, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

oh great, now the static map is broken again... Guess there is still a control char somewhere.... —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:29, 25 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
ah interesting.. moved the coord a fraction and it fixed itself. I think i know why.. the livepreview saved a copy of the image with a different hash, causing an incorrect group reference being generated that the static tile renderer then cannot use... This likely happens a lot and I think i might already have a patch for that particular problem somewhere.
 
Campus map with mapframe tag directly
Template:Re I tried adding a ref within a direct call of mapframe HTML, as you suggested. It doesn't seem to have worked, though. Am I doing something wrong? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 23:34, 26 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Template:Replyto there were just a few errors in the json. Importantly, the json values need to be escaped (esp. "), but also geojson flips the order of the latitude and longitude (apparently that's a thing in Cartesian geometry). —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:21, 27 October 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Talkref

Ref parameterEdit

For anyone following along, after some discussion with TheDJ and others on Discord (around here), we'd like to add reference parameters (e.g. Template:Para, Template:Para) to Module:Mapframe. These would add <ref>reference content</ref> into the json appended to the end of the description parameter. This would bypass a parse cycle and make it so that the ref tag wouldn't be escaped when the JSON is made, resolving the bug. If anyone who knows Lua could help to code this, I would be grateful! {{u|Sdkb}}talk 07:55, 1 November 2021 (UTC) Template:Maplink/sandbox Template:Maplink/sandboxReply[reply]

@Sdkb: Does this edit do what you want (see right)? I was puzzled why it didn't work until I saw that the stripmarkers were being stripped out in recent changes. —  Jts1882 | talk  11:53, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Jts1882, that looks fantastic; thanks so much! I did encounter a bug, though; it seems that if more than one feature is added, it goes back to displaying '"`UNIQ--ref-00000003-QINU`"' again. Any idea what's causing that? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 17:30, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sdkb and TheDJ:Single features and multiple features are handled slightly differently. The latter are placed in an array and control characters stripped (in part of the code added to the sandbox by TheDJ to remove stripmarkers). I don't have access to your discussion on Discord, but am I right in thinking that these changes aren't needed with this reference solution. I've disabled the stripping of control characters (line 597) to show that the reference code otherwise works.
I think rather than removing stripmarkers in the code, it might be better to detect them and provide a warning or error message. If references it could suggest use of the reference parameters. —  Jts1882 | talk  08:18, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I think there is a simpler solution. Escape the control characters on line 199 rather than replacing them with a blank.
Old:
cleanArgs[key] = (not util.matchesParam('text', key)) and val:gsub('%c',' ') or val
New:
cleanArgs[key] = (not util.matchesParam('text', key)) and val:gsub('(%c)','\%1') or val
Is there a problem with this? —  Jts1882 | talk  09:53, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I guess that could work. let's try it. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:17, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jts1882, @TheDJ: The sandbox looks like it's working! Should we implement as is or do you want to try the simplification idea first? {{u|Sdkb}}talk 00:26, 3 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The current sandbox version makes a number of changes dealing with stripmarkers that might not be necessary. The simple solution of escaping stripmarkers might offer a more general solution and wouldn't be removing anything added to the template parameters. It worked for me in the tests I did in the editor. It's not clear to me why the control characters were replace by spaces rather than escaped before, as it seems to me this caused the stripmarkers to leak. If it works, then is the ref parameter needed? —  Jts1882 | talk  07:10, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh, if it makes the ref parameter unnecessary, that's even better! I'm good with implementing the simplified version then. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 08:59, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Maplink/sandbox

Not quite as simple as I thought. My solution above breaks json queries in Template:Para parameters. I've reset the sandbox and added special handling for the description parameter using the above method, leaving handing of Template:Para and other parameters unchanged. This works in the examples we've being using (see right or User:Jts1882/sandbox#mapframe_test) and doesn't break any of the Template:Tl.
It was the replacement of control characters with spaces (to fix the issue of control characters in the json output) that cause the leak of stripmarkers. The Template:Para parameter was excluded from this process to protect stripmarkers, but stripmarkers in other parameters were corrupted. I'm not sure, but it seems that only the Template:Para parameter needs special handling and that my fix could be used on the other parameters, which would allow references on titles as well. —  Jts1882 | talk  10:18, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The technical part is over my head, but the behavior all looks good! I put a courtesy notice at the module talk page; if no one from there/here raises concerns, feel free to implement! {{u|Sdkb}}talk 19:26, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template:Reflist-talk

Dealing with related redirectsEdit

I have created these eight pages, all redirects to Photoelasticity.

If someone comes along and changes one of them to a full-fledged article, then all of the others should redirect to that. But the creator may be unaware of those others. Is there some way we can use existing software to assure that that person will become aware of the situation? Michael Hardy (talk) 17:37, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Michael Hardy A comment? ― Qwerfjkltalk 20:58, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Space aliens ate my header!Edit

In Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Ineedtostopforgetting/Archive, the "11 October 2021" L3 heading doesn't render. My first guess is something broken in the immediately preceeding Template:T, but my eyes glaze over when I try to read that junk.

There is HTML being generated for it:

<h3><span class="mw-headline" id="11_October_2021" data-mw-comment="{"type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-11_October_2021-Ineedtostopforgetting","replies":["h-Suspected_sockpuppets-11_October_2021-2021-10-11T01:46:00.000Z","h-Comments_by_other_users-11_October_2021-2021-10-11T17:27:00.000Z","h-Clerk,_CheckUser,_and\/or_patrolling_admin_comments-11_October_2021-2021-10-29T13:56:00.000Z"],"headingLevel":3,"placeholderHeading":false}"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-11_October_2021-Ineedtostopforgetting"></span>11 October 2021<span data-mw-comment-end="h-11_October_2021-Ineedtostopforgetting"></span></span><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Ineedtostopforgetting/Archive&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: 11 October 2021">edit source</a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span> <span class="arky" style="display:none"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a data-header="3" data-section="1" onclick="$(this).closest(":header").toggleClass("arkyhighlight");$(this).toggleClass("arkylink");var archivable = $(".arky a"); for(var i=archivable.index(this); i<archivable.length; ++i) { if (archivable[i] == this) { continue; } if ($(archivable[i]).attr("data-header") > 3 && $(archivable[i]).hasClass("arkylink") != $(this).hasClass("arkylink")) { $(archivable[i]).click(); } else { break; } }">archive</a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></span></h3>

but nothing actually displays. -- RoySmith (talk) 20:59, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Perhaps the most efficient thing to do is ask User:Vanjagenije, who just (~3 days ago) archived part of the archive to another page, according to this. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 21:29, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The box generated by Template:T has the "infobox" class, which is floating. Looks like it floats right on top of the heading; using the dev tools to manually set float: none on the box causes the heading to show up again. A naïve way to fix this would be to add that style rule to the template, which I've done in the sandbox (to see how it looks, edit the SPI page, replace {{SPIpriorcases}} with {{SPIpriorcases/sandbox}}, and preview). Maybe there are better ways, though. – Rummskartoffel 21:40, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(Don't use the infobox class for things that aren't infoboxes. This might better be using Template:Tl.) Izno (talk) 22:28, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Firefly: you were the last person to edit Template:T, but more importantly, you understand this stuff a lot better than I do. -- RoySmith (talk) 23:21, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@RoySmith hmmm did I break something? I’m travelling at the moment but will have a look when I can get to a computer - assuming someone else doesn’t get there first :) firefly ( t · c ) 06:32, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • I just removed the Template:T template [7]. It is not needed in the archive. Vanjagenije (talk) 16:12, 2 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Can someone explain to me, in small words for slow minds, what the use case is for an element ever to be both float:right and width=100%? Isn't that just asking for breakage? —Cryptic 22:09, 4 November 2021 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  1. "New Rains Center to be completed by 2022; 5Cs prepare for construction's effects". The Student Life. Retrieved 2 December 2020.
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